Mr. Holland.

like that, but I don't know, and I told him I would be back and after lunch I would go up there.

Mr. Stern.

Approximately what time did you arrive up there?

Mr. HOLLAND. Oh, I arrived up there, I guess, about a quarter until 12, and I would identify each person that came up there that he worked at the Union Terminal. and department so-and-so.
Mr. STERN. Whom did you see there at 11:45 when you returned, from then until 12:30?

Mr. Holland.

Well, I would have to try to remember who all was up there then. There was Mr. Reilly and Mr. R. C. Dodd.

Mr. Stern.

Mr. Reilly?

Mr. Holland.

Reilly.

Mr. Stern.

Who was---

Mr. Holland.

R. C. Dodd, and N. H. Potter and Luke Winburn.

Mr. Stern.

Luke?

Mr. Holland.

Winburn.

Mr. Stern.

And---

Mr. HOLLAND. And a fellow by the name of Johnson, he works in the car department.

Mr. Stern.

Johnson.
Mr. HOLLAND. And there was another fellow who worked at the car department, tall, blond-headed boy, and I can't remember his name.

Mr. Stern.

That makes six people so far. Are these all employees of---

Mr. Holland.

Yes.

Mr. Stern.

Of the terminal?

Mr. HOLLAND. Yes, and they were two men, one of them worked for the Katy, and one for the T. & P., that I don't know their names, but I do know that they were railroad people. They were over on business. Working on those business cars, and one of them was a Katy employee, and one was a T. & P. employee.

Mr. Stern.

Could you give me their full names?

Mr. Holland.

Texas & Pacific, and the Missouri, Kansas, Texas Railroad.

Mr. Stern.

You don't know the names of those particular men?

Mr. Holland.

No; I don't.

Mr. Stern.

Did you see them here today?

Mr. HOLLAND. I know the policemen talked to them and got identification from them.

Mr. Stern.

Yes; but they are not, as far as you know, the two gentlemen that you saw sitting in the anteroom to the U.S. attorney's office just before

Mr. Holland.

No; neither one of those.

Mr. Stern.

Did you recognize either of those two men?

Mr. HOLLAND. One of them is a cabdriver, and the other one is an electrician at Union Terminal. The large fellow is a cabdriver.

Mr. Stern.

The electrician, do you know his name?

Mr. Holland.

Frank Reilly.

Mr. Stern.

There were two other men out there. Perhaps you didn't notice them. I spoke to them after I spoke to you.

Mr. HOLLAND. Well, at the time the parade got started they was, I guess-Davey Cowzert was up there, too.
Mr. STERN. But, just to finish with the two, you didn't recognize either of the two people who were in the anteroom a few moments ago as being people who were on the overpass that day?

Mr. Holland.

No.

Mr. Stern.

All right.

Mr. HOLLAND. There was two people I did recognize and that was the cab-driver and Mr. Reilly was out there and that policeman, he was up there with me.

Mr. Stern.

You recognized the policeman as being the policeman who was on the triple overpass at the time?

Mr. Holland.

Yes.

Mr. Stern.

Fine. Now, another name just occurred to you of someone else.

Mr. Holland.

Cowzert [spelling] C-o-w-z-e-r-t, Cowzert.