Mr. Hubert.

Did he ever tell you about any sexual relationship with any of them? With women.

Mr. Armstrong.

No. Not in that sense; no.

Mr. Hubert.

What about his attitude toward men from a sexual point of view?

Mr. Armstrong.

He didn't have any attitude toward men.

Mr. Hubert.

You know what I am talking about--did he have any tendencies that you could observe of homosexuality?

Mr. Armstrong.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

You know what homosexuality is, don't you?

Mr. Armstrong.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

I suppose you have seen or met perhaps people who are alleged to be homosexual?

Mr. Armstrong.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

I suppose, too, that you are able to recognize some of the characteristics of people who are homosexuals?

Mr. Armstrong.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he have any of the such characteristics?

Mr. Armstrong.

Not that I could observe.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you any reason whatsoever to believe that he was a homosexual?

Mr. Armstrong.

No reason at all.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you any reason to believe whatsoever that he had any kind of sexual perversion? Do you know what I mean by that?

Mr. Armstrong.

Not exactly.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, that he had sexual relationships either with women or men in other than the normal way?

Mr. Armstrong.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know anything about any pOssibility of a strange sexual attitude that he might have had toward these dogs you are talking about?

Mr. Armstrong.

No more than he loved them. I know that he would come in the club and he would lay down and take a nap and the dogs, too--Sheba would probably be lying very close to him, or one of the other little dogs, but I had a little dog that I did the same way myself.

Mr. Hubert.

What I'm getting at is his attitude in relationship to those dogs was that he loved the dogs in the way that any normal man would love dogs, and no more?

Mr. Armstrong.

Right.

Mr. Hubert.

Is that correct?

Mr. Armstrong.

Right.

Mr. Hubert.

What was the financial condition of the club, as far as you know?

Mr. Armstrong.

Not good.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, now, before you expand into that, do you know when it opened, when the Carousel opened?

Mr. Armstrong.

I don't know when the Carousel opened.

Mr. Hubert.

It was open when you went there?

Mr. Armstrong.

It was open when I went there.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know how long it had been open, had you heard?

Mr. Armstrong.

Well, the first was in 1961 or I think of 1960--the last of 1960, because I think there was a prior club during 1960 there.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, the Carousel had been in existence as such and under that name for about 18 months before you went with it?

Mr. Armstrong.

I believe so.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, why do you think the financial condition of the club was not good?

Mr. Armstrong.

Well, there was--compared to the other two clubs it was not good, because the other two clubs--the Theatre Lounge and the Colony Club--they did a lot more business than the Carousel did.

Mr. Hubert.

When you said they did more business, you mean they had more people in there?

Mr. Armstrong.

Yes.