Mr. Hubert.

You say you were with that person and in that automobile about 7 or 8 hours clean into Chicago. So you had a lot of opportunity to observe such things as who you were riding with.

Mr. Crafard.

It has been quite a while back, too.

Mr. Hubert.

Is it your memory that you now say he was a man in his late twenties; about 29?

Mr. Crafard.

I would say in his late twenties.

Mr. Hubert.

And that you don't remember the type of car?

Mr. Crafard.

I believe it was a Chevy.

Mr. Hubert.

You don't remember the State license plate?

Mr. Crafard.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you do any stopping with him?

Mr. Crafard.

I imagine we probably stopped a couple of times and gassed up; stopped and had a bite to eat.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you remember the cost of that meal?

Mr. Crafard.

No; I don't. It couldn't have been more than about a dollar or a dollar and a half, at the most.

Mr. Hubert.

You didn't pay for his meal or buy the gas?

Mr. Crafard.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Is it customary for hitchhikers to help out that way?

Mr. Crafard.

Not very often. A man usually figures if he picks up a hitchhiker he figures on feeding him when he picks him up.

Mr. Hubert.

What is that?

Mr. Crafard.

A man who usually picks up somebody who is hitchhiking, they usually figure on feeding him.

Mr. Hubert.

These people didn't feed you?

Mr. Crafard.

No. I try to have money in my pocket when I am hitchhiking.

Mr. Hubert.

What time did you get to Chicago?

Mr. Crafard.

It was in the afternoon.

Mr. Hubert.

What part of the afternoon.

Mr. Crafard.

I'm not sure.

Mr. Hubert.

Would it have been early afternoon or getting toward dark? This time of the year it gets dark early; it did at that time.

Mr. Crafard.

Yes; I know.

Mr. Hubert.

You say you had been with him about 7 1/2 hours?

Mr. Crafard.

About that.

Mr. Griffin.

Let me get the time straight here a little bit.

Mr. Hubert.

I thought we did have it straight.

Mr. Griffin.

I am not straight.

Mr. Hubert.

Let me see if I can't get this straight. You rode through the night of the 23d?

Mr. Crafard.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

Until the man left you off on the morning of the 24th on the west side of St. Louis on Highway 66; is that right?

Mr. Crafard.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

It was daylight then, and you had been with that man since about 8 o'clock the night before. Now, do you remember the time that he left you off? I think you stated that, didn't you?

Mr. Crafard.

I'm not exactly sure what the time was. Probably about 6 or 6:30; something like that.

Mr. Hubert.

And then you rode with this other man from that time or about a half hour after that time, you said; so that is about 7 o'clock on the morning of the 24th, you rode with him about 7 1/2 hours to Chicago?

Mr. Crafard.

About that; yes.

Mr. Hubert.

So then we can reconstruct that you must have reached Chicago or nearby Chicago at approximately half past 2 or 3 in the afternoon.

Mr. Crafard.

It must have been in there somewhere.

Mr. Hubert.

But you had stopped a little while for lunch.

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And gas and so forth. What do you think is the fair time to state, Larry?

Mr. Crafard.

How's that?