Mr. Griffin.

And what happened when you got in there?

Mr. Pappas.

Well, when I got there he was talking to some reporters, having another press conference, about Oswald's activities overnight, what he had for breakfast, and things like that.

Mr. Griffin.

At any time before Oswald was actually brought down in the basement, did you receive any indication, either by what you observed or by what someone told you, or by what you overheard, with respect to the manner in which he was going to be moved, or the route by which he was to be moved, or the time or circumstances under which he would be moved?

Mr. Pappas.

Well, we were told that he was going to be moved in an car, or an armored truck. And someone at the window said, "There is an armored truck downstairs." And there was one. I just got a glimpse of it. I don't know whether he was trying to back into the garage at the time or not. I can't recall.
And we asked him why the armored truck. And he said, "Well, our police cars are not bullet proof."

Mr. Griffin.

Curry said that?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Before the armored truck arrived, did you have any that the armored truck might be on its way to the police station?

Mr. Pappas.

No; I didn't see the armored truck arrive. Somebody just said there is an armored truck.

Mr. Griffin.

I mean before you saw the armored truck the first you have any idea that the armored truck was going to be used at all before saw it down there?

Mr. Pappas.

Well, we were told by Curry.

Mr. Griffin.

And how long before you actually saw the truck?

Mr. Pappas.

Almost immediately before.

Mr. Griffin.

What did you do then, when you saw the armored truck?

Mr. Pappas.

Well, I went back to talking to Curry. He was waiting up there. People were asking him questions. He was passing the time of, and we were getting information.

Mr. Griffin.

And how much later is it you estimate that Oswald was moved out of the homicide office?

Mr. Pappas.

Let's see. Later than what?

Mr. Griffin.

Well, than this particular episode you have just been talking with Curry, and having seen the armored car.

Mr. Pappas.

Well, Curry left. A lot of other reporters left. It was 11 o'clock.

Mr. Griffin.

I am probably not making myself clear. How much elapsed between the time that you finished talking with Curry, after seen the armored car, and the time that Oswald was actually moved?

Mr. Pappas.

Oh, I would say 20 minutes, 25 minutes. To the best of my recollection.

Mr. Griffin.

Were you on the third floor when Oswald was taken out of homicide office?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

And what did you do when he was brought out of the office?

Mr. Pappas.

Well, I saw Captain Fritz coming out first, and Oswald behind him. I walked up to Fritz and I asked him a question.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you have your tape recorder with you?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you have any tapes of what took place up there in hallway at that time?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Would they be available for us to listen to?

Mr. Pappas.

You have them.

Mr. Griffin.

We have that particular tape?

Mr. Pappas.

Oh, yes.

Mr. Griffin.

This is one of the tapes you had given to the FBI?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes.