Mr. Mccullough.

No; and the man at the time was wearing, I believe it is called, a porkpie hat, and he had a topcoat. This, I remembered, because most of the reporters were not wearing topcoats, and certainly were not wearing hats.

Mr. Griffin.

What kind of a topcoat did he have on?

Mr. Mccullough.

It was a dark blue topcoat.

Mr. Griffin.

When you rubbed elbows with this man, what, was his response in the sense of--was it a polite gentlemanly response?

Mr. Mccullough.

It was a smile. And the explanation, as I said, that he was not a newspaperman, and that he was a businessman. In other words, he indicated there was no need to apologize, that I had not struck his notes or made him scribble. And he, as everyone along there, was starting into this door, waiting to see what would happen next.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you see him again?

Mr. Mccullogh.

No; I did not see him at the press conference at which Oswald appeared. However, the fact that he was there and wearing the same clothing was told me later by a police judge who was present at that press conference.

Mr. Griffin.

Justice of the Peace David Johnston?

Mr. Mccullough.

Yes. I went to his office the following day in another part of--actually in a suburb of Dallas, to follow up the story. And--I am sorry, it was not the following day. It must have been Monday, when it was then clear that the man who shot Oswald was Ruby. And I mentioned to Johnston that I had bumped into this man. And the police judge said, that he, too, had seen him at the press conference, and that Ruby had approached him and handed him a card, a gray card, advertising the club that he operated.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you have a clear recollection that Johnston said that Ruby was wearing an overcoat?

Mr. Mccullough.

This I don't--I have no clear recollection, but I did mention the clothing, the hat, and Johnston said that this was the same--the hat I did mention.

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mr. Mccullough.

But I don't remember whether or not I mentioned the topcoat.

Mr. Griffin.

Were you able to see what sort of clothes the man you believe was Ruby had on under the topcoat?

Mr. Mccullough.

No; I could not see that. However, after the jostling, after I had jostled him, we did stand together, I would guess, for 5 or 10 minutes. There was no further exchange, conversation between us.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you see him attempt to talk or talk with other people?

Mr. Mccullough.

No; I did not notice; no.

Mr. Griffin.

When you went down to the assembly room, where Henry Wade had his press conference, do you recall where you were standing in relationship to Wade and the front of the room?

Mr. Mccullough.

Yes; it is a large room with tables and benches. I would have been to the left side of the room facing what was a standup box, a police lineup box, a screen police lineup box, and some distance back, about one quarter f the distance back--in other words, I was not immediately in the front.

Mr. Griffin.

When you say the left side of the room--

Mr. Mccullough.

Facing this police lineup box, and there was a small stage a foot perhaps in elevation from the floor level.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, as I have already asked you, when you were down there, you did not see this same man again?

Mr. Mccullough.

No; I did not see Ruby again.

Mr. Griffin.

What did you do after the Henry Wade press conference ended?

Mr. Mccullough.

I stayed there for perhaps a half hour talking to reporters. Of course, Oswald himself was brought into the room.

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mr. Mccullough.

And someone put a microphone in his face. He said something about his civil rights being violated. He was taken out. We talked to Wade. He gave us some information. When Wade left, we talked to various--there, again, it was just a general attempt to interview everyone and anyone who knew anything at all about the offense. And I would guess that after about