I think you've covered some of this and it may be repetitious, but I think you are in a good position to tell us, if you will, what do you know about Jack's thoughts or attitudes towards the various "isms" that exist in the world today, "rightism," "leftism," and so forth ?

Mr. Kaufman.

Mr. Hubert, to be very honest with you and to be very candid with you, I have never discussed it with Jack, so it would be presumptuous again on my part to express opinions as to any political philosophies, as far as any philosophies or doctrines he might have toward any "isms." I certainly would classify him--I think this---I think I am certainly in a situation, having served in the Armed Forces and having served in China and having been active in my community supporting them financially as well as with works, I would certainly classify Jack as to what I knew a,bout him as a loyal American.

Mr. Hubert.

From what you knew of him as a person, would he be the' type of person that would be interested in international politics or international ideological philosophies and so forth?

Mr. Kaufman.

If he was, I had never discussed it with him. Actually, as I explained to you, I'm sure that many of us even in the course of legal conversation will digress somewhat and talk about sports or talk about women or talk about a multitude of subjects. To 'the best of my recollection I never had talked politics with Jack. I had never talked anything that would give me any background where I can express an opinion on that subject.

Mr. Hubert.

Would you express your opinion as to what his desires and ambitions in life were?

Mr. Kaufman.

Well, that covers a multitude of sins. I can say that in the field of his business venture, I really think that Jack would liked to have been a success in the. field of entertainment. He had tried many, many ribbons, and when I say "ribbons," I mean they've changed methods of operations.
I didn't know Jack when he was in some other nightclub businesses. I think he was being represented by some other attorneys. In fact, before coming here this morning I tried to just recollect how I first met Jack, and the best I could recall, I had talked to him a few times in the lobby of the Mercantile Bank and who had introduced Jack to me, I was trying to find out that, and I recall that he at that time used to wear a short-sleeved sport shirt and a pair of trousers and a bunch of keys on the back of his hip, and reminiscing how he had improved his dress and all through that period of time, that Jack when he would come to my office I would say generally would be dressed and attired well. He would have on a tie and a suit, and I think he wanted to elevate himself where he would be a success financially. I think honestly he would have married Alice Nichols. For example, when we discussed this, he didn't think he was worthy of her, being a nightclub operator and she a very fine legal secretary for a very fine attorney.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you detect any sensitivity toward his background?

Mr. Kaufman.

We never talked about his background. Not that he would avoid it--naturally, there would be a time or occasion that certain events would come up and he might. say, "Well, it was pretty rough in Chicago." Jack had a finger off--I don't know if you have seen Jack, but he did tell me once that someone bit it off in a fight he had with him. Now, whether that was in Dallas or Chicago, I don't even know, and whether that was true or not, I don't know.
I was at the Worth Food Market, they have a kosher delicatessen up there and I was checking out--I'd been up there buying some Stuff and I was up at the counter' checking out and a little boy had his little portable radio and all of a sudden I heard this kind of a report, as I recall, "They are bringing Oswald down," and the next thing is this boom, and as I recall the news reporter said, "My goodness, one of these trigger-happy detectives has shot Oswald" and they wouldn't identify who it was, and then they straightened it up and they said, "No, it wasn't a detective" but they wouldn't identify him, but then I get in the car and turn on the radio in the car and all of a sudden they say it was Jack Ruby

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