Mr. Walthers.

Yes. Let me see now. A picture taken straight down like this don't have any particular bearing. I'll tell you what---this is going to be the divider between the pavement, because I remember, there's not any grass growing down there, it's just a gravel looking top, so this is going to be the street, and that's right, because the bullet is going to be big where it hit first, and then it left this trail.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you think that the light colored part is the street and the dark colored part is the divider?

Mr. Walthers.

I think it would be the street--the light colored part, and the dark colored part is this little gravelly looking part down there and it's under the shade of the underpass and no grass will grow there.

Mr. Liebeler.

The light colored part is a part of the street and the dark colored part is the curb and there is what appears to be a ricochet mark on the curb.

Mr. Walthers.

Yes; because it is high like this is the curb and this is the street, and it come along this edge of the curb.

Mr. Liebeler.

Toward the top of the curb?

Mr. Walthers.

And it angled down--at the angle, you could almost just point it right back up.

Mr. Liebeler.

Toward the Texas School Book Depository Building?

Mr. Walthers.

Evidently this shot must have went way high over that car--- the last shot, as they were fixing to go to the underpass---it must have been awful high to hit where it did.

Mr. Liebeler.

You say it was the last shot, why?

Mr. Walthers.

I would say it was the last shot because of the distance it went down towards the underpass. Had there been another shot, it would have been way---would have went way back over there.

Mr. Liebeler.

The car had already been down--the car would have already been under and by the underpass?

Mr. Walthers.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Can you think of anything else you saw or observed that day that you can tell us about what happened?

Mr. Walthers.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

When you were there at the Texas Theatre helping to arrest Oswald, did you hear Oswald say anything when they tried to get ahold of him and tried to get him out of there?

Mr. Walthers.

Like I say, there was quite a scuffle between them, but I heard him say, "It's all over now, it's all over now," or something to that degree, and I can't be sure, ,because like I say, there was such a scuffle going on and there was so much confusion, but he said something about, "Now"--"It's over now,"
or, "It's all over now."

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you know if anybody else heard anything that he said at the time; have you discussed this with anybody else?

Mr. Walthers.

I haven't discussed it because the officers that were there were not in my squad and I haven't talked to anybody about it, but there were some other officers around there. Some of our officers were there but they weren't right there in the area.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you hear--there have been some stories that he actually tried to shoot one of the officers there with that pistol and one of the officers heard that pistol----the hammer hit the bullet, did you hear anything like that?

Mr. Walthers.

No, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

When I say, "Did you hear anything like that," I mean, did you hear the hammer in the pistol hit the bullet?

Mr. Walthers.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you ever hear somebody say that it hit the bullet?

Mr. Walthers.

I think McDonald said he Snapped it at him.

Mr. Liebeler.

But you didn't hear it?

Mr. Walthers.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

But you do think that Oswald said something like this--"It's over, it's all over now?"

Mr. Walthers.

He said something--when he was being pulled up out of the seat and as they were getting the gun away from him is when he made a remark about, "It's over now, it's all over now."