about Oswald. I probably spoke to both of them about him. My recollection is, and also my wife's recollection is, that either of them said he is a harmless lunatic. Later on Max got disgusted with him and said that he is a no-good b - - - - - d, a traitor, and so on and so forth. But by that time we already forgot Oswald--got Oswald out of your lives, you see. This is one point.
The second point is as you can see the whole of the Russian colony in Dallas were interested in Oswald one way or the other, because they represented somebody who had been to their old country just recently, and could give them the latest information on what was going on. As I said, the old guard were naturally against them right away. The others were just curious. But this particular couple, Natasha and Igor Voshinin, refused to see them. And I insisted several times, "Why don't you see them? You love all the Russians. Why don't you meet Marina Oswald?" And she said, "We don't want to, and we have our reasons for not meeting them." And it kept on in my mind. I did not want to raise that question. But why didn't they want to meet them?

Mr. Jenner.

Well, tell me what is your speculation as to why they did not want to meet them?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I do not have the slightest idea. Maybe they knew something about Oswald, of some connection.

Mr. Jenner.

Or maybe they were alarmed, and didn't want to take any chances.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Maybe just that.

Mr. Jenner.

But they were pretty firm in not having any traffic with them.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Absolutely firm. The only ones. Maybe they were just more recently arrived in the United States and they were not so secure like we were, you see. And possibly they were just alarmed of meeting somebody who just came from Soviet Russia.

Mr. Jenner.

I think I will ask you at this point, Mr. De Mohrenschildt, you are a man of very superior education and extremely wide experience and acquaintance here and in Europe, South America, West Indies--you have lived an extremely colorful life. You are acquainted to a greater or lesser degree with a great variety of people.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

Did there go through your mind speculations as to whether Oswald was an agent of anybody?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No.

Mr. Jenner.

Why? Before I put it that way--when you say "No," am correct in assuming that you thought about the subject and you concluded he was not an agent of anybody? Is that what you meant?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I never thought even about it. I will tell you why I thought he never was--because he was too outspoken. He was too outspoken in his ideas and his attitudes. If he were really--if he were an agent, I thought he would have kept quiet. This would be my idea.

Mr. Jenner.

You say he was outspoken. What do you base that on?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. For instance, he showed me his--he discussed very freely with me, when he showed me his little memoirs.

Mr. Jenner.

I am going to show you those papers in a little while.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Those memoirs I think are very sincere. They explain more or less the sincere attitude of a man, sincere opinion of a man.

Mr. Jenner.

Before I show you any papers, I want you to finish this reasoning of yours.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I did not take him seriously--that is all.

Mr. Jenner.

I know you didn't. Why didn't you?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well----

Mr. Jenner.

You are a highly sophisticated person.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, he was not sophisticated, you see. He was a semieducated hillbilly. And you cannot take such a person seriously. All his opinions were crude, you see. But I thought at the time he was rather sincere.

Mr. Jenner.

Opinion sincerely held, but crude?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

He was relatively uneducated.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Oh, yes.