I think it is Brock. Now, then, you mentioned something about drawing off persons to patrol the intersection of Elm Street ?
Captain TALBERT. Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Would you tell us something about that, please ?
Captain TALBERT. We had kept as many officers out of the basement area as possible to keep from adding to the confusion of the search so we could make a systematic search, and I had retained all of the excess officers, and, as I recall, numbered about 13 regular police officers in my office and the reserve officers, and excesses were retained in an assembly room which would be behind the jail office, and after about 11--let's back up and make that about 10:45---in that vicinity, Chief Stevenson and Chief Lumpkin contacted me about the route of the proposed transfer of Lee Harvey Oswald, and they asked--- correction I asked if we were going to use marked can or plain cars, or if we were going to utilize sirens to stop traffic at intersections?
Chief Stevenson said he didn't want any attention attracted to the transfer that wasn't already attracted to it, and asked if I had enough personnel to put in the intersection of Elm Street. First he said Main Street. The first route planned was Main, and it was changed to Elm before I could so disperse the personnel, so, actually, we utilized Elm all through this.

Mr. Hubert.

Just as it was?
Captain TALBERT. And they said first Main and then before after I had removed the men from my office to the ramp-- not the ramp area, but the parking area and told Sergeant Dean and Sergeant Steele to place them on each intersection to stop traffic for the lights as the people making the transfer approached them. Found then that it was to be Ell Street instead of Main, that it was to be Elm rather than Main and the traffic could go--the reason being that they could swing off of Elm into Houston, directly into the prisoner loading area of the sheriff's office, and those 13 men were placed by Sergeant Steele at each intersection. He didn't have enough. I instructed him that he obtain any additional men he might need from the captain who was in the area of the county jail, and he later called me by phone and told me of the traffic conditions down there, and I had an estimate, I don't recall whether from him or some other officer of the approximate number of people in that area, said around 600 or so gathered up around the county jail; so I instructed Steele to have each one of the men fall in behind or follow fairly closely behind the conveying vehicle so they would be available for any trouble that might develop around the county jail.

Mr. Hubert.

Were you ever told by anyone of the plans of the transfer?
Captain TALBERT. Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

That is, the ultimate plan or the
Captain TALBERT. Well.

Mr. Hubert.

Any sequence of plans?
Captain TALBERT. After the plans had been instituted, Lieutenant Pierce, who I had sent to the homicide bureau previously to see if we could be of any assistance, or see if he could do anything--I didn't see him enter the basement, but as he pulled up onto the ramp--or in an effort to enter the ramp, he stopped his vehicle and called me over and asked me to get in his car. I opened the door, got in on the right-hand side of his car and he told me my--I omitted something, I believe, about this armored car, haven't I? Do you want that in there?

Mr. Hubert.

We'll come back to it.
Captain TALBERT. All right. He told me that he had been instructed to take a car out and get in front of the armored car which was backed into the ramp on the Commerce Street side and to lead the armored car. He was to be the lead vehicle and the armored ear, it would go up northbound on Central to Elm, west on Elm and swing in off of Elm on to Houston Street. That two plain ears would pull up behind of the armored car. The prisoner would actually be in the last plain car, and the first plain car would be full of armed homicide officers, and it would cut off on Main Street, west. It would leave the city hall with the cavalcade, and when it hit Main Street the two plain

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