But the other two cameras which you have marked behind the railing, were they taking shots when you walked down ?
Chief BATCHELOR. No; I don't know that they were at that time. They didn't have any lights on, no floodlights on, and they had been told to keep their floodlights off. They didn't turn them on.

Mr. Griffin.

Prior to the time that you came down on the second trip at about 10:45, did you discuss with anybody up on the third floor where you wanted these TV people placed and what you wanted done with the lights?
Chief BATCHELOR. We told the men down here, and we told the reporters down here, just kind of announced to them.

Mr. Griffin.

As you walked down ?
Chief BATCHELOR. Yes. Some of them---one of the supervisors came in and said they couldn't get them all along here and wanted to know if it would be all right to put them along here?

Mr. Griffin.

You are indicating at the bottom of the Main Street ramp?
Chief BATCHELOR. Main Street entrance ramp.

Mr. Griffin.

Between the railing and jail office?
Chief BATCHELOR. And the wall.

Mr. Griffin.

Yes. They wanted to put their cameras there?
Chief BATCHELOR. No; it wasn't cameras. They just-Wanted to stand there.

Mr. Griffin.

What did you tell them?
Chief BATCHELOR. Since we couldn't get them in there, he told them if they would stay back, they could stay there. And there were some officers that were stationed along there to hold them back.

Mr. Griffin.

But your original hope was that all of the news media people could be in the entrance to the garage?
Chief BATCHELOR. And they were scattered along here, too. Scattered along the entrance into the garage itself and along here, but some of them, there just wasn't room for them, and some got across here.

Mr. Griffin.

How long did you remain downstairs on this second trip?
Chief BATCHELOR. I don't think this is the second trip. I think, well, I guess it is. But I came down here, and Stevenson and I looked this thing over.

Mr. Griffin.

You are going to have to indicate in words.
Chief BATCHELOR We looked over the basement to see that the security was in order. I noticed an officer at the Main Street ramp. We walked up the Commerce Street ramp and noticed a crowd of people across Commerce Street, and was told by one of the supervisors that they were keeping them across there, and that they allowed no one on the side next to the police station of the city hall except officers. And the only people over here were either reservists or regular officers. They had officers across the street. Chief Lunday told me they had officers down at the courthouse across from the Jail entrance. Was keeping that crowd back there.

Mr. Griffin.

Now as you looked along the sidewalk on the north side of Commerce Street, from the Commerce Street ramp to Pearl--from the Commerce Street ramp to Pearl Expressway--in other words, in the direction of the municipal building, could you see how the police officers were spaced, and how many officers were along the north side of Commerce Street?
Chief BATCHELOR. Well, it is a good ways to Pearl, and the crowd didn't extend anywhere near down to Pearl Street. It was mostly just across from the building up to Harwood Street rather than Pearl. There weren't that many people there. It wasn't like a parade. I guess there were, oh, a couple of hundred people across there, perhaps.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you know whether or not there was a police officer at the corner of Pearl and Commerce?
Chief BATCHELOR. I don't know. I don't remember whether there was or not. I'm sure there must have been one stationed there.

Mr. Griffin.

When you walked out on the sidewalk and were talking about this 10:45 trip down to the basement, what did you do?

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