Mr. Arce.

Yeah.

Mr. Ball.

You were not in front of the building?

Mr. Arce.

I was directly in front, but then I walked a few steps down to the west side.

Mr. Ball.

Where were you with reference to the west wall of the building?

Mr. Arce.

Oh, I was way far from it. I was across the street, I mean.

Mr. Ball.

What do you mean "across the street"?

Mr. Arce.

Well, there's a little sidewalk right across the street and there's some grass and things up there and that's where I was at. I couldn't tell you exactly where I was, see, it's hard to explain.

Mr. Ball.

Well, you say you were not in front of the building?

Mr. Arce.

Well, not directly, not in front; I was across the street.

Mr. Ball.

And were you west of the west wall of the building?

Mr. Arce.

Well, I was, well the building--

Mr. Ball.

I understand but you were to the south of the building. You had to be south of the building, didn't you?
Mr. ARCE. Well, I was south but I was, well, I guess you could say I was in front of the building but not directly in front, well, I don't know how to explain it.

Mr. Ball.

Who was standing with you?

Mr. Arce.

Well, I walked away from the other guys because they were all in front of the building and I went across the street to get a closer view.

Mr. Ball.

You walked which direction?

Mr. Arce.

I just--right across the street.

Mr. Ball.

Right across Elm Street?

Mr. Arce.

Uh-huh.

Mr. Ball.

The part of Elm that dead ends there?

Mr. Arce.

Yeah.

Mr. Ball.

You crossed that and went on to the grassy part?

Mr. Arce.

Uh-huh.

Mr. Ball.

Now, it sounded to you that the shots came from what direction?

Mr. Arce.

From the tracks on the west deal.

Mr. Ball.

How many shots did you hear?

Mr. Arce.

Three

Mr. Ball.

Did you look back at the building?
Mr. ARCE. No, I didn't think they came from there. I just looked directly to the railroad tracks and all the people started running up there and I just ran along with them.

Mr. Ball.

Did you go up to the railroad tracks?

Mr. Arce.

Yeah.

Mr. Ball.

Did you see anything up there?

Mr. ARCE. No, and they told us go back there and I went back inside the building.

Mr. Ball.

Where did you go then?

Mr. Arce.

Back inside the building.

Mr. Ball.

How long did you stay in there?

Mr. ARCE. Oh, about 15 minutes and they took us down to city hall to make statements out.

Mr. Ball.

Then you made out your statement?

Mr. Arce.

Yes, sir; to the Police Department.

Mr. Ball.

Well, just 1 minute, let's see---

Mr. Arce.

I helped this old man, this gentleman in there.

Mr. Ball.

You saw an old man?

Mr. Arce.

Yeah.

Mr. Ball.

Where?

Mr. Arce.

Right in front of the Texas School Book Depository.

Mr. Ball.

When?

Mr. Arce.

Right, you know, it was before it happened; I don't know.

Mr. Ball.

How long before the President went by?

Mr. ARCE. I don't know. I think it was about 10 minutes, some place around there, 15 minutes; I'm not too sure.

Mr. Ball.

What about the old man; what was noticeable about him?