Mr. Frazier.

And they were found to be similar in metallic composition.

Mr. Specter.

Can you state with any more certainty----

Mr. Frazier.

Excuse me, one thing. These, as a group, were compared with the bullet fragment, Commission Exhibit 567, which was found on the front seat of the automobile, which also was found to be similar in metallic composition.

Mr. Specter.

Is it possible to state with any more certainty whether or not any of those fragments came from the same bullet?

Mr. Frazier.

Not definitely, no; only that they are of similar lead composition.

Mr. Specter.

Have you now described fully all of the relevant characteristics of the fragments identified as Commission Exhibit 843?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Specter.

Are there any other bullets or bullet fragment or metallic substances of any sort connected with this case in any way which you have examined which you have not already testified to here today or on your prior appearance?

Mr. Frazier.

No, sir; that is all of them.

Mr. Dulles.

Is there anything further?

Mr. Specter.

No.

Mr. Dulles.

Thank you very much, Mr. Frazier.
The Commission will reconvene at 2:30.
(Whereupon, at 1:30 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)

Dr. Alfred G. Olivier
-----------------
Afternoon Session

Testimony of Dr. Alfred G. Olivier

The President's Commission reconvened at 3 p.m.

The Chairman.

The Commission will come to order. Mr. Specter, has the doctor been sworn yet?

Mr. Specter.

No, sir; he has not.

The Chairman.

Doctor, would you raise your right hand and be sworn, please? Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give in the matter before this Commission will be the truth., the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Dr. OLIVER. Yes, sir.

The Chairman.

You may be seated.

Mr. Specter.

State your full name for the record.
Dr. OLIVER. Dr. Alfred G. Olivier.

Mr. Specter.

What is your occupation or profession?
Dr. OLIVER. A supervisory research veterinarian and I work for the Department of the Army at Edgewood Arsenal, Md.

Mr. Specter.

Would you describe the nature of your duties at that arsenal, please?
Dr. OLIVER. Investigating the wound ballistics of various bullets and other military missiles.

Mr. Specter.

Would you describe the general nature of the tests which are carried on at Edgewood Arsenal?
Dr. OLIVER. For example, with a bullet we run tissue studies getting the retardation of the bullet through the tissues, the penetration, various characteristics of it. We use as good tissue simulant 20 percent gelatin. This has a drag coefficient of muscle tissue and makes an excellent homogenous medium to study the action of the bullet. We also use animal parts and parts of cadavers where necessary to determine the characteristics of these things.

Mr. Specter.

Would you set forth your educational background briefly, please?
Dr. OLIVER. Yes; I did 2 years of preveterinary work at the University of New Hampshire and 4 years of veterinary school at the University of Pennsylvania, and I hold a degree doctor of veterinary medicine at the University of Pennsylvania.