I want you to keep ruminating in this fashion, because these things will come to you. What did he say about his work there?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, he said that the work was all right, not too hard, not too well paid, that it was very boring. That later, after the work, he had to be present at all sorts of meetings, political meetings. He said he got bored to death. Every day he had to stay for an hour at some kind of a meeting, the factory meeting. And this is a thing I thought was very intelligent because that is one of the points that is really hateful in a Communist country---the meetings after work. That I noticed through my own experience in Yugoslavia, that the engineers and the plain workers just hated that--a political meeting after working 8 hours. And Lee Oswald also resented that in Russia. And I thought it was a rather intelligent---one of the intelligent remarks that he made. And he repeated that very often--that is the thing he hated in Russia; resented, rather than hated.
Well, he described the personalities of some of the people that he knew there which I do not recall anymore. But some of them nice, and some of them less nice, and some of them very much interested in the United States, some of them unfriendly--that sort of vague recollection.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you engage him in conversation respecting Communism as a political ideal and his reactions to that?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. He kept on repeating that he was not a Communist. I asked him point blank, "Are you a member of the Communist Party?" And he said no. He said, "I am a Marxist." Kept on repeating it.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you ask him what he meant by that?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I never frankly asked him to elaborate on that because again, you know the word "Marxism" is very boring to me. Just the sound of that word is boring to me.

Mr. Jenner.

What impression did you get in that connection as to whether he was seeking some mean or middle ground between democracy and what he thought Communism was?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Possibly he was seeking for something, but knowing what kind of brains he had, and what kind of education, I was not interested in listening to him, because it was nothing, it was zero.

Mr. Jenner.

I see. It was your impression, then he could contribute nothing?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No, he could contribute absolutely nothing except for a remark like that about the meetings, which was just an ordinary remark a person of his intelligence could understand. But when it comes to dialectic materialism, I do not want to hear that word again.

Mr. Jenner.

Did discussions occur as to his attempted defection?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. From the United States to Russia?

Mr. Jenner.

Yes.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. How it happened?

Mr. Jenner.

Yes.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Why it happened and how it happened?

Mr. Jenner.

Yes.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

Tell me about that.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. A few words I remember now. He said that while he was in Japan he saw tremendous injustice. By that he meant, I think, the poverty of the Japanese working class or the proletariat, as he called them, and the rich people in Japan. He said it was more visible than anywhere else. Now, I have never been in Japan, and I cannot vouch for that. But that is what he told me. And he also told me that he had some contacts with the Japanese Communists in Japan, and they--that got him interested to go and see what goes on in the Soviet Union.

Mr. Jenner.

Just concentrate on this, please. Tell me everything you can now recall as to what he said about--you used the term, what we lawyers call a conclusion. You said he had some contacts with the Communists in Japan Now, try and recall what he said or as near----

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